PODCAST EP. 387: Pheasant Hunting Equalizers

Speaker 1 (00:50.746)

Welcome to On the Wing Podcast presented by Purina Pro Plan. It's that time of year again. Time for Toodles and Hellholes, which means our national treasure, Tom "Carp" Carpenter, is back to offer some sage advice for pheasant hunting folks taking to the field in search of roosters this hunting season, which have started.

To open across the country. and we're gonna be playing off an article that Carp wrote that is in the fall edition of the Pheasants Forever Journal. So as I am wont to do, I am gonna pass the proverbial microphone over to Carp to read the opening stanza from an essay he titled Equalizers.

Speaker 2 (01:48.47)

If pheasants were easy to hunt, pheasant hunting would be no fun. If pheasants were impossible to hunt, pheasant hunting would be no fun. We red blooded American rooster chasers and our dogs live somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. Good days and bad days, although I would offer that a bad day pheasant hunting is better than most other days. Birds everywhere and birds nowhere. Some roosters holding or all the birds getting up wild.

Can't miss a shot, can't make a shot. We don't mind getting beat, but we would like to get beat less often. That's where what I call the equalizers come in. While we can never swing the odds totally in our way, there are conditions to look for, approaches to take, and mindsets to adopt that can tip the scales at least a little bit back our way.

Speaker 1 (02:42.794)

And with that, Carp has written that article, Equalizers. He's got eight, count them eight, pheasant hunting equalizers. We're going to chat about today for this episode with the goal of helping you tip the scale in favor of beating some of those wily ringnecks this season. Before we get rolling, I want to thank once again Purina Pro Plan, the presenting partner of On the Wing Podcast and the official dog food of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever.

My pups have always eaten Purina Pro Plan, not just because Purina supports the wildlife habitat mission of our organization, which is incredibly important to me and it should be important to you as well. But what's most important is that Purina Pro Plan is a team of the world's best scientists and nutritionists behind their dog food. Purina Pro Plan was built, the recipe was made for the working bird dog like yours and like mine. You can learn more at Pro Plansport.com - Purina Pro Plan, nutrition that performs.

Speaker 3 (04:01.01)

Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever National Headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota, this is Casey Sill with the Upland Newsroom, delivering top stories from the Habitat Organization and across the American Uplands. We've got a few state-specific updates for you guys today. We'll begin in Colorado, where a state constitutional amendment will be on the ballot this November that would protect the right to hunt and fish. Amendment 83 would establish a constitutional right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife by traditional methods including all species of fish and wildlife managed by the state, except non game species, endangered species, or any species that is illegal to hunt under federal law. In layman's terms, the amendment protects Colorado's hunting heritage. As of now, hunting opportunities in Colorado rest on statutes and regulations that a future legislature or ballot measure can change. Amendment eighty three would place them in the Constitution, which offers another layer of protection for our favorite pastimes.

The amendment would also protect a major part of Colorado's economy. Hunting and fishing contribute more than $3.25 billion to the Colorado economy every year, support more than $25,000 full-time jobs, and reach all 64 counties, according to the Colorado Wildlife Council. Finally, it keeps management grounded in science. The amendment recognizes hunting as the preferred tools for managing wildlife populations while expressly preserving the state's authority to regulate.

Based on sound science and public safety. Pheasants Forever and Quill Forever support this amendment, and we're excited to see another layer of protection added for upland hunters in Colorado, allowing them to join twenty four other states that already have this right in their constitution. The amendment needs at least fifty five percent of the vote to pass, so if you're a Colorado resident who cares about your state's outdoor heritage, be sure and make your voice heard at the ballot box on November third.

Moving on to my home state of Nebraska, we've got a new partnership to celebrate with Cubby's Convenience Stores. Beginning this fall, customers at Cubby's Convenience Stores across Nebraska, South Dakota, and Iowa can support our habitat mission through the Cubby's for Conservation Roundup campaign. From October 2026 through March 2027, shoppers can round up their purchases to the nearest dollar at checkout with 100% of donations supporting upland habitat conservation efforts.

Speaker 3 (06:24.44)

Cubby's is also a gold sponsor of the 2027 National Pheasant Fest and Quail Classic, which is coming back to Omaha from March 5th through the 7th, 2027. So the next time you pick up a bucket of Chester's chicken and a loaf of Rotella's bread at Cubby's, support our mission by rounding up your purchase to the nearest dollar. That'll do it this week reporting from PFNQF headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota. I'm Casey Sill.

Speaker 1 (06:52.972)

All right, Carp, we got eight items and we short we're gonna we're gonna tackle the eight items and we'll have four. Do a short little commercial break and do four more. anything you want to prelude before we dive into number one.

Speaker 2 (07:18.018)

Well you talked about some carpisms, tootles and hell holes. You left one out roostery sag in the game bag. So

Speaker 1 (07:27.116)

I did I did lose a roostery sag no.

Speaker 2 (07:30.136)

So you gotta maintain the branding. so hope the the idea here is that you can never we we don't want it. It w as I said in the intro, pheasant hunting just wouldn't be fun if you just walked out there and shot And it wouldn't be ever any fun if you could never get But we all want to get them a little more often. And the these pheasant hunting equalizers are are just some approaches you can take. Some

conditions you can look for either weather and habitat that might tip those scales a little bit more in your favor. we could all use some equalizers so and get some more roostery sags in our game bag this pheasant season.

Speaker 1 (08:15.66)

All right, with that, let's get to it. Number one on your Casey Caseum or Tom Carpenter Billboard Top 100, number one is wind. Give us some thoughts on wind.

Speaker 2 (08:30.412)

You know, wind is sort of like Goldilocks and the three bears, or I liken it also to fishing, in that when you don't have any wind, you're like, God, we could use a little more wind. And when you have too much wind, you're like, my god, I don't need this much wind. And so that brings us to well, what is the good right wind? And you know, I maintain that anytime to hunt pheasants, any time you can hunt pheasants.

You c you should do it. No wind, forty miles an hour. There there probably becomes an upper end where people don't won't hunt pheasants, where f some folks won't hunt pheasants. I really have yet to find that upper end. Yeah. Yeah, that that would be one. although I'm I'm famous for shooting lightning birds. We're hunting in sharp sharp tails in North Dakota a couple weeks ago and a storm storm was brewing and

Speaker 1 (09:12.716)

Like a straight line tornado.

Speaker 2 (09:28.812)

My my partner Anthony said, You know, y there's a lightning storm up there and I said, Well, it'll just be another lightning bird for me. I've shot roosters and sharp tails in the lightning, which, by the way, also bring wind. But

Speaker 1 (09:42.476)

You know, a shotgun's kind of like a lightning room.

Speaker 2 (09:45.006)

I know, I know. We we need I don't know. I'm a risk taker, I guess. but but you think about wind and pheasant hunting and you want some wind because it helps that dog scent. But what's too much wind? And as you look through if if you read the story and we're we're paraphrasing here and just yakking about it, but I'd like probably more wind than your average hunter would want.

Speaker 1 (09:46.968)

Death wish carp?

Speaker 2 (10:14.97)

I think the sweet spot's about 15 to 20 miles an hour. And why why do I like that wind? it's because one, it it helps scenting for the dog. And two, it helps you sort of pick out where you want to hunt and plan your plan your route better. But I think I think how do you mean? Well, if you've got a sustained wind, you can look at a piece of cover and and sort of evaluate and go.

You know, we all like everybody likes to the best part of the swing is into the wind. And big surprise the wind doesn't switch around for you to come back with the wind. So you gotta plan a a good path to hunt it. Gotcha. And I I like wind. and I'll get to what you know, we all think about wind as it's good for my dogs. What's good for my dogs helps me plan my hunt. Well, I'll just say it. Wind also

masks your approach. When it's dead calm, it's hard to get up on them. When it's 40, 50 miles an hour and they're especially spooky, it's hard to get it's hard to get up on the birds. But I think there's some middle ground in there in that 10 to 25 mile an hour range. 15 to 20 is probably my and a lot of guys would say and you might too that's a that's a little bit much for ideal. I think it is ideal. I'll

I'll t if if you s if you said to me, you can have zero miles, you can have no wind, you can have zero to five miles an hour, you could have twenty to twenty five. Give me twenty to twenty five.

Speaker 1 (11:54.998)

ideal fifteen to twenty for midwesterners who are used to walleye fishing, fifteen to twenty is a walleye chop. More in a walleye in white caps.

Speaker 2 (11:56.835)

Yeah, so

Speaker 2 (12:03.958)

Yeah, I think it's a little

Yeah. Yeah, okay, I think so. But I like it for that reason. but I guess the bottom line of this tip is and we you know, when the wind is really high, that can be good too, 'cause you know where to go. You get in the leaves of the hills, you get down in the hell holes in the cattails where there is less wind. 'Cause the birds don't want to be up where they can't hear. You know, pheasants primarily evade us by their eyes and their ears that lead to legs running away.

And a big wind can direct you, can tell you where the birds are gonna be. You're not gonna be hunting that that hilltop or that windward hillside. You wanna get over if you got terrain where there's less wind or you wanna get down in the bottoms where there's no where there where the wind is appreciably reduced and the pheasants feel a little more comfortable. So, you know, the the wind tip is just keep hunting, but adjust your approach a little bit.

as to that as to what that wind is doing and where it might direct you to hunt.

Speaker 1 (13:10.638)

So at the end of a tailgate starting a hunt, probably the most common question when it is windy, like you know, say there's three, four hunters at the end of a tailgate, it's awfully windy today. What do you think the birds are gonna do? Your response is that they're gonna be holding tighter if you're quiet in the wind. Yep. So if i so if listeners are here they're like they're

Thoughts or their experiences that gosh, when it's really windy, birds just blow out on me. And put words in your mouth so you can correct me if I'm wrong. You should be think if if that's the case, if if when it's super windy and birds are blowing out on you, you should be looking in the mirror and you're talking too much, you're yelling at your dog too much, you're too darn loud. And

Birds will blow out in a high wind because they can hear you coming. You gotta shut the heck up. Quit talking to your partners, quit talking to your dogs. And it's just as important to be in stealth mode when it's windy as it is when it's calm. Yep. Stealth mode is key either way. Yep.

Speaker 2 (14:21.142)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:27.294)

And if you're if you're hunting, we all know that that beautiful golden hour that we all dream of and and a big surprise, the wind dies down at the end of the day and there's no wind. And you're out there hunting. And even if you're whispering or make they can hear you crunching the the habitat as you're walking, if it we'll say if it's dry or yeah. And and calm, they they're

Speaker 1 (14:50.754)

Rushing top.

Speaker 2 (14:56.65)

In my estimation, pheasants can be more jumpy when it's calm. And if you're if you maintain stealth in a wind, you should be able to y get up on to have a better chance, I think. and but like I say, I that's why I like if you could give your druthers there's that ten to twenty-five, that fifteen to twenty that to me is ideal because it offers a little bit of both worlds.

Speaker 1 (15:25.676)

We're I'm looking at your list. We're we're touching on number seven. So I'll I'm gonna back away and go to number two on your list. After wind, you have moisture. Talk about how moisture can be an equalizer.

Speaker 2 (15:43.05)

I think that dry, the drier the conditions, the tougher it is for us and our dogs for two reasons. Again, and they they they are come back to one thing we've already talked about, which is dry takes some of that stealth from you. another carpism is ghost it, that stealth. ghost it. Ghost it, yes. Be like a ghost.

Speaker 1 (16:05.9)

When it's

Speaker 1 (16:09.986)

Yeah. Yeah, like Casper.

Speaker 2 (16:12.344)

Yeah, just wand wander and and be like a wraith out there. W R W R A I T H Wraith is like a phantom. And and there's folks. Yeah. Wraith. So when it's dry, our dogs have a tougher time. That's that's we all know that's true. That that is absolute truth. As scientifically proven.

Yeah and but on the other hand, when it's I just won't hunt in the rain anymore. I just hate it. and because it's miserable. It's for us. It's miserable for dog, it's miserable for us, and it's hard to get g birds, it's hard to scent birds.

Speaker 1 (16:59.2)

It can be miserable for dogs. It can it it can also be advantageous for dogs. Like I don't disagree with you. It's a hunting in the rain's miserable for you and I. If it's not cold, hunting in the rain can be advantageous for.

Speaker 2 (17:11.16)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:14.892)

Yeah, if it's not pouring.

Speaker 1 (17:16.48)

Because it can keep cool and it does create some scent. No doubt.

Speaker 2 (17:20.142)

I mean, I I think back to sharp tail hunting when it's a little misty. Yeah, because it's warm out and that wet that moisture keeps the dog cool. Often in pheasant season, except early on, we're not dealing with that. Yeah. We're not dealing with that. but no, so you know what what's a great day, and my old my friend Ben Williams taught me this long ago, is that we all like to say

Speaker 1 (17:36.502)

But I kinda derailed you, cool.

Speaker 2 (17:48.46)

Yeah, that day after rain, let's get out. It's good. It's gonna be good. It th the moisture's out there. And that's true. But he always said the second day after rain might be best of all because the pheasants we we can't imagine what our dogs can smell. And we all know the dog gets birdie and it's like we don't know if that bird was there an hour ago or a day ago. And I like a couple days after a moisture event can be a day to target.

Speaker 1 (18:18.263)

Right. Moisture event you say it that way because snow is i arguably even better than rain.

Speaker 2 (18:26.486)

I agree. Yep. I th I think you're a hundred percent right. because snow by its very nature creates moisture. Yep, and tracks. and but we're we're touching on another one too for later. but so so the bottom line with moisture is you know, once again, you're gonna hunt when you can hunt, and you can get birds in dry conditions, but if you give me a druthers, an equalizer is

Speaker 1 (18:33.856)

It tracks.

Speaker 2 (18:56.15)

Somewhat maybe the day after a rain, but two days after might be even better because the birds have laid out scent. Rain also washes, especially heavy rain, washes everything off. Yeah. Scent just doesn't linger in the air, it sticks on vegetation. Gets washed off. You two days after a rain, the birds have had a chance to lay down some of the scent and there's still enough moisture. We we can't imagine the molecule, you know, equations that are happening.

Right. To produce scent that our dogs can smell. But I'd I from Ben's advice and then my twenty years of additional experience after he gave that to me, I think that couple days after rain might be the best of all. And then we'll get into snow too later.

Speaker 1 (19:41.922)

I'm going to number three. And I I'm looking at your list here and it occurs to me. So there's eight. Four of them I would categorize as dog centric and four as human-centric. Yeah. so I think what we've talked about already two pretty dog-centric. Yeah. Wind and moisture. Wind can be argued, it's both. Yeah. Moisture for sure is a dog-centric. All right. Going number three is a human one.

Speaker 2 (20:11.906)

Yep, human inhabitat. Yep. And we have we have no control over when corn is harvested. And across the pheasant range, maybe a little bit less as you go west and there's less corn, although corn is steadily marching its way west and north. Yeah, absolutely. we deal with corn and

Speaker 1 (20:13.826)

Corn. Corn as an equalizer.

Speaker 1 (20:32.748)

And or

Speaker 2 (20:40.664)

The average pheasant hunting mentality is I hate corn. The pheasants are all in the corn. It's a big excuse. And it doesn't have to be. so my first tip about corn is I actually don't mind a little corn up in the early sea. Well, if corn is up, don't curse it. Take advantage of it. And the the way you take advantage of it is if there's some good habitat, you think about a

big stretch of public land or a big stretch of CRP or the edge of a waterfall management area that's in that nice grassland, diverse cover that we'll talk some more about. And there's a standing cornfield next to it, we might look at that in the middle of the day or in the morning and go, Yeah, I'm not going to even hunt that. They're all in the corn. Now, as an aside, there's always some pheasants in the grass. As my as our friend Scott Rawl tells me, Tommy, there's always pheasants in the grass.

But most of them might be in the corn. But you get out there toward the golden hour. It's not rocket science. They gotta leave that corn to roost in the grass, that standing corn. And that can be an equalizer because they've got that haven and they know you know they're gonna come out of it into the grass sometime in that last hour, maybe even last two hours. so standing corn can be an equalizer. The other equalizer I like about corn is when it goes away.

And you can have a spot or two and you're like, boy, that corn if that corn wasn't standing, wouldn't this be a fantastic place? Well, get out there, figure what when it is coming down or when it's down. And by luck, if you can get there when it's freshly down, you're in great shape. That that the mere fact of that corn coming down can be the equalizer you need. so when you monitor the see

You know, you can't watch a field unless you live closely there, but cor co standing corn doesn't have to curse you and corn coming down can be your best friend. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:46.572)

So you talk about standing corn being beneficial in the golden hour. Now take off your Minnesota hat and put on Nebraska, North Dakota, even Iowa, some of the states that start earlier in the day than Minnesota, which is a nine AM start. The the advantage you talk about in the golden hour at the end of the day also exists

it's states where the hunting day starts, you know, half hour before sunrise or Iowa's at eight AM, like those birds that are sleeping, roosting in the grass, they're in the grass.

Speaker 2 (23:27.618)

Yeah, that's that's that's an excellent point. I d I do have my South my South Dakota ten AM yeah start, my Minnesota n nine AM start. but that's that's that's an excellent point. Use it in the morning early and and like

Speaker 1 (23:44.13)

It's going different.

Speaker 2 (23:46.606)

Going west and north in North Dakota and Montana, you can start at I think at sunrise. I don't I don't think it's a half an hour before.

Speaker 1 (23:53.858)

I think there's some states that are thirty minutes before

Speaker 2 (23:57.059)

I know that I know some go thontana goes thirty minutes after. Okay. But

Speaker 1 (24:02.328)

Check your check.

Speaker 2 (24:04.821)

do not use this podcast as your official start and stop time for pheasant hunting.

Speaker 1 (24:10.83)

'Cause well it's a good reminder. All states have different starting times and stopping times. So

Speaker 2 (24:17.388)

Yeah, that's a that I I s I I don't do as much hunting in states where you don't have later start times. That's a great point. It can be it can be a morning a morning thing too. Like you can beat the corn early. Right. As you can be as you can beat it late in the day. You can also beat it early.

Speaker 1 (24:34.498)

Number four, diversity.

Speaker 2 (24:37.73)

Diversity is another another habitat tip. It's up to you to pick the habitat you're gonna hunt. and I always like to talk about what I call this pollinator cover. And, you know, we all like to hunt we all think blue stem. And blue stem has a color to it. You can see it. It's not blue, it's it's yellow, but it's got red stems and it gets it gets redder and to purple, you know. But

The darker the color is, the diversity within a planting. W pick out a 40 acre plot that's on a wildlife area or you have CRP. The darker that is, the more diversity it has, which means it has Forbs, wildflowers, probably some weeds, good good weeds. We like we like some weeds. They produce they produce seeds, they add diversity. but I that diverse cover in the sense that.

the field you're walking, if it's all cheap grass or wheatgrass or if it's all blue stem, yeah, that's good stuff. But even better is that really diverse pollinator cover. You're walking through, you can see the seed heads. You can see the Minarta, the purple cone flower, the yellow cone flower. You see these seed heads and you know and and what that also is, is it's the best brood rearing cover. And it's also because because it's the best brood rearing cover, it's just in general the best habitat.

And those stiff stem forbs stand up to autumn winds, the first snows. there's also a second angle to diversity, and that is if you can if you can pick a place that's 160 acres and all looks the same, you can pick a place that's 160 acres and it's got that that diverse prairie cover, that pollinator cover, native prairie, and it's got wetlands, probably some w actual water.

Which means it's gonna have cattails on the edge. And there's not necessarily trees. Trees are a little iffy. We could we can talk to our you can talk to our biologists about that, but shrubs and w willows and dogwood and all that plum thickets and that short woody cover that can't ho that that a raptor is probably not gonna be able to sit on, but the pheasants can get into. It that diversity within

Speaker 2 (27:02.284)

the landscape you're hunting can be an equalizer because it can equalize it because it can help you pick out where do I want to hunt today. If you give me 160 acres of straight on straight up pollinator habitat, there's going to be pheasants there. But if there's diversity, you've got a little you've got paths to take, you know, you can weave and wend your way around that cover. And you also have that diversity like

the pheasants don't seem to be in the grass today. They're all right on the edges of the cattails or they're in the cattails today. I've got to go in there or man, they like the woody cover. You've got options. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:43.784)

s so I'm gonna make a statement. You tell me if you think it's true or false or maybe somewhere in between. Quail hunters, particularly bobwhite quail hunters, they say somebody from Texas that's always hunted bobwhite quail goes to South Dakota for the first time, they will have a easier time figuring out diversity of landscape and habitat than you know, of of person that's

Pheasant hunting in one state and is moving to another. I my my statement, I believe, is like quail hunters kind of visually n particularly, I think about sunflowers and Forbes, they have a they're always looking for diversity. And a lot of pheasant hunters we've been somewhat spoiled by CRP over the years and some some monocultures have produced an awful lot of birds. They may not be.

Yeah. In those birds come fall, but w so quail hunters can decipher that diversity quicker than a you know, thirty year pheasant hunter.

Speaker 2 (28:49.772)

Yeah, I'd I'd say it's true. I think the diff to me the difference with pheasant hunters is, and maybe it's my leaning in my hunting style, which is me and my dog and nobody else and nothing else. I want to be one one on one on one. Me and my dog and the pheasants. And that sort of leads me to s sometimes stray away from those huge

bigger spreads of just one cover type, a CRP field. And pheasant hunters, I mean, let's many of many of us off only hunt with other hunters, other partners. And we specifically pick a CRP field or a cornfield. These big areas where we can spread out ocean is just one thing. And we don't have to weave around this cattail slew and we want to take our straight path. Now you can hunt birds in that stuff, but

And I do and I love it, but you can often equalize the table a little bit by going into that diverse cover because you have more options and you can maybe pick out a pattern and 160 acres of great native prairie, they could be anywhere. Yeah. If you if you go wandering and ghosting through 160 acres that is native prairie, maybe some food plots.

Cattails, brush. You're you're gonna maybe find a pattern like, Yeah, they're not up they're not up in the grass. Let's go try the cattails. here they are.

Speaker 1 (30:26.082)

Well, the other thing that diversity speaks to is satisfying all the life cycle needs of a bird. You know, you talk about cattails or shrubs, it's like thermal cover, winter cover, right? Grass roosting cover, nesting cover, forbs, brew food, food plots or w you know whatever they're eating. Yep. So it's you know, it's dead.

Speaker 2 (30:48.024)

Cover.

Speaker 1 (30:55.848)

Old old saying, the kitchen next to the bedroom. Yep. Right. And if the you have a diversity of habitat in a particular plot, they don't need to go anywhere else. Yep. They're they're probably in that spot.

Speaker 2 (31:08.354)

Yep. And it, you know, we always talk about connectivity. You know, it's the diverse habitat is connectivity in spades, because it's right there. It's not even it's not even a flight across a field or along a along a filter strip to get to another piece of cover. All the needs are right there for the birds. And pheasants don't pheasants don't migrate. They gotta have their years resources within a a mile.

Of themselves. Hopefully right next door.

Speaker 1 (31:41.528)

Four down, four to go. we're gonna take a moment and thank Onyx Hunt. We don't hunt for that perfect picture to use on social media. With Onyx Hunt as your guide, we do hunt for the walk behind a good dog, the smell of burnt powder, and the buddy right alongside. The best spots mean more every time we return.

Some were passed down to us and some we found ourselves. And the traditions we carry forward are the ones we hope somebody carries on after us. Time out here is a way of putting everything else in perspective. The best days rarely involve what ends up in the back of your vest. They're the stories we tell for years, the unforgettable dog work, and the people who were there. Long after the season ends.

Those are the things that stay with us. Onex hunt. Here's to the hunt. Every time I read that, I feel like we should have a a mug and cheery w cheersy.

Speaker 2 (32:49.14)

We need some sound effects. When we were starting this podcast, Bob had pushed some button and he sounded like Darth Vader. I like can we can we turn that on and off?

Speaker 1 (32:58.926)

I I can I can figure out all that this podcaster pro two has at its disposal. I just haven't figured it out.

Speaker 2 (33:07.96)

Look for more sound effects in future podcasts.

Speaker 1 (33:11.522)

all right. Well, if I had sound effects we'd have a bell striking noon. number five on the list. A word you don't hear very often. Yep. Forenoon. F-O-R-E N-O-O-N. Forenoon, number five on the list, Carb. What on earth do you mean by this? Well

Speaker 2 (33:32.856)

Well, you know, it could have been morning or late morning, but that's not that's no fun. Late morning. For noon is is the late morning. It's a different word for it. It's for it's before forenoon. And I had first learned that term from my I call them my kinfolk in the driftless of southwestern Wisconsin, Bohem by my mother's side, Bohemian farmers on Dry Dog Ridge, Grant County, Wisconsin.

And they didn't call they called the late morning the forenoon. And I'd like that's my we all know golden hour. Yeah, that's great. Golden two hours as I always say. But if you gave me had to made me choose make me choose another time to hunt, it would be ten to noon, which is the forenoon. And why that, you know, well that's why I like 9 a.m. openers and 10 a.m. shooting hours because it sort of pushes you to that.

that forenoon. And the reason I like that is, you know, one, it's it it is kind to the birds. You know, th there's no biolog I don't I don't think there's there's no biological evidence that early hunting at dawn or the first hour of daylight, you know, r ruins pheasant numbers. It's just it just doesn't. But we for sociological reasons we have these, you know, later starts. But to me they coincide with what can be what can be the best hunting.

And that in the wh why do I say that is I think it it's because the birds have had time to be out feeding. I mean, if you're start if the sun rises at seven and you start hunting at seven, a lot of those birds

A lot of those birds might be out feeding and you're walking through the cover and they're taking off from the corn stubble or the wheat stubble. and but co s crops crops notwithstanding, once ten AM hits, those birds are back in the cover. They wanna be in and big surprise, they've had a chance to lay down some scent and walk around and get into these spots where they wanna tuckle in for the day. That's another carpenter.

Speaker 2 (35:47.022)

Tuckle in. And they and it it's good for you and it's good it's good for your dog because they have more scent to work with. And I and and they've started to settle in. They're not on the move. It's easier for a pheasant to hear maybe hear something like a tinkle from your dog or hear a beep on the collar and go, uh-oh, I'm already moving. I'm gonna get out of my ass and keep going. But w when they're starting to tuck in for the day, tuckle in for the day.

They might just sit a little tighter. And you dog that's when you grew out there and your dogs start circling and circling and you're like, huh, whether you got a pointer or flusher and you're like, there's a bit of bird here. And then they start getting birdier. And you you and I as pointing dog guys go and then all of a sudden they go on point. Or all of a sudden your flusher's tail tail starts going in a spiral and it's like, here we go. Cause they that bird has been been hunkered in there. And they have a chance the scent laid down.

By the time the forenoon hits, they've had a time they've had time to lay down some scent.

Speaker 1 (36:53.314)

I in my mind I'm thinking about a cartoon, like a Sunday Sunday newspaper cartoon. And the first square would be a rooster says to itself, I'm gonna tuckle in, yeah, ten o one. And then then Lark is walking through the field tinkling, right? Making it tinkle with the bell. Yep. And then the rooster, the third cartoon is the rooster. I got a skedaddle.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:24.698)

And they and a but enough of and the four a fourth one might be another rooster that his eyes get big, like I'm making a baseball size ring with my fingers here, and his eyes are like, And he's got his no his head down on the ground and his eyes are big like too late. I just gotta sit here. And that that's the bird you can get. You know? I'm just

Speaker 1 (37:48.226)

What are you doing in this cartoon?

Speaker 2 (37:51.342)

Wandering around go I'm Casper the Friendly Ghost. I've I'm I'm like Casper the Friendly Ghost with my shotgun just sort of wandering around. all right. Letting her do the work.

Speaker 1 (37:54.604)

Making a tootle.

Speaker 1 (38:05.418)

number six December.

Speaker 2 (38:10.7)

You know, th this one could have been called snow and cold. and that leaves that that made me but the I like I like the idea of December. When you think about December weather, what do we think? It's colder. Maybe probably some snow, we hope. And that can be one of the greatest equalizers of all. And, you know, at one level the idea is

This is late season. And don't be a one and done pheasant hunter or a two-weekend and done pheasant hunter, especially in a good bird year, like you know, the our pheasant forecast talked about this year. Maybe you listen to our pheasant forecast, certainly you can check our pheasant forecast on pheasant hunting forecast online. Is late season, there's always birds, and sometimes you can get the equalizers out of the snow.

in the cold. And it's it's probably my favorite time to hunt because one of those crops we talked about corn corn doesn't even factor anymore. It it it in as much as you know you're not as much as much worried about standing corn, but you like stubble fields. If you have a standing stubble field that you know that's a feed you know that's feeding ground, you know, to some extent if it's blown free enough, you know, soybean stubble.

And wheats double, of course, as you get farther west. so the December, snow and cold can be an equalizer in that it narrows down the options for where those birds can be and it can also hold them tighter. The the colder the better. And the and I'm not gonna say the more snow the better, but to a certain extent, you know, who who'd you what what would you say is ideal snow depth for pheasant hunters? Well

Speaker 1 (40:06.112)

The th the I'm gonna answer it a little bit differently. The first snow. Yeah. Right. And I'm a little disappointed you haven't offered this already. Because normally every year we do a podcast during the season and you're like, This is my official ADP submission to take out the day. Right. so the first snow and it any measurable snow. yeah, half inch to four inches w is wonderful.

Speaker 2 (40:28.522)

Even a skiff.

Speaker 1 (40:35.438)

For the first ideal snow, I would say, you know, I'm kind of a shorter guy. I'm I I'd say like a six inch, six to eight inches, because if it's beyond that, it gets pretty tough to get out to place, particularly, you know, places that get blown in. what do you think? What's ideal?

Speaker 2 (40:59.038)

And you know, I think it's for me the idea would be less, three to four. But I think enough that it reduces the number of places the pheasants can be, i.e., it knocks over some of the grass. but it I will be honest, it has to take it it probably takes more snow than we think it takes to move the pheasants out of that good heavy.

pollinator type cover, that blue stem type stick. If it's got structure, you'd be surprised how many pheasants are out there. and but I I think enough snow to drive them in the cattails is is probably ideal. And it and that might well be six inches, but I think three to four. We we can never get perfection. You know, my my point here is late season

Speaker 1 (41:28.832)

If if it's got structure.

Speaker 2 (41:51.714)

can equalize your opportunities because it can reduce the amount that the amount of acreage that those pheasants are going to be at. And even when it gets to be a moonscape out there, you know where they're gonna be. They're gonna be in the cattails, or if you don't have cattails, they're gonna be in brush, hard hard, you know, woody cover. And it it just reduces the amount of acres you have to cover to find birds. And late season,

With snow and cold can be an equali is is an equalizer.

Speaker 1 (42:25.998)

so number seven on the list, we've danced around well, we've used the word multiple times already. It plays into wind, it plays into moisture, can play into corn, can play into diversity, for sure should play into forenoon, and it sh would definitely play into December, particularly when you know where the birds are, the birds know where you are.

What I'm alluding to is the word stealth. Number seven on your list is stealth. Shut the hell up.

Speaker 2 (43:01.314)

Well, I think it's one of the biggest mistakes pheasant hunters make is

Speaker 1 (43:06.195)

It's probably the biggest mistake.

Speaker 2 (43:08.364)

Yeah, it is. It it's and there's a social aspect to pheasant hunting, okay, but there's a time and a place for the social aspect of pheasant hunting. And the time and place for a social aspect of pheasant hunting isn't in the field. Now it becomes tough when you're hunting with a group or you're, you know, you're doing that fun hunt, you're lining up to at any time we're talking any time of year now, but it's cause stealth is important any time of year, but especially late season. But

Early season, mid season, late season, especially late perhaps, ghosting it, being quiet, being stealthy, not yelling, minimizing any noise. That's why I like to hunt alone because there's I don't I don't have to talk to myself. I don't have to communicate with anybody else. My dog and and myself at this point pretty much know, you know, what each other is going to do.

Speaker 1 (44:03.138)

Does excuse me, does LARC operate off of hand signals or just body direction and she'll go where you want?

Speaker 2 (44:12.77)

You know, I I continue to evolve. You know, we we evolve. And there there probably was a time where in my pheasant cunning career where I would have said, Yeah, whistles don't matter, a whistle, but sometimes you do have to whistle. But I find myself trying to whistle less and less to on a whistle and just get her to good at it in

in most dogs you hunt long enough with them, you you build that partnership and they'll look back, where is he? And I will use hand signals like and and I I never trained her. She just knows, you know, he's going just through hunting hunting. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, here my secret for training hunting dogs is take sharp tail hunting in the early in September and early October 'cause they can see you. You can see them. It the the the challenge of that is they

Speaker 1 (44:54.03)

Just through

Speaker 2 (45:11.234)

They can get out a little farther than you like pheasant hunting. And I d I don't like my dog to be too far pheasant hunting, but almost all dogs figure that out f really fast.

Speaker 1 (45:20.438)

Post dogs will adapt to the cover in the bird that you're hunting. Yep.

Speaker 2 (45:24.79)

So I'm becoming less and I I do less and less whistling than I used to whistling on my on my whist on my whistle to get it get her attention because I do believe it calls attention, but sometimes you just gotta get that dog back on track. And I try to do it just one doop doop give me a look here. I guess my biggest health tip is this, and it it becomes it's important any time of season, especially late, is I'll rarely.

pull into a parking spot, like at a you think of a W waterfall management area or a wildlife area, a parking indicated parking spot for a walk-in area. we're all creatures of habitat or well we are creatures of pheasants are creatures of habitat. We're creatures of habit as a human race. And you're like, that's a parking spot. I better start there. And there's a trail that goes down and and you're like, well that's yeah that's pretty smart place. It goes along the edge

one pre-tip is don't park where everybody else does. But my biggest one is get ready somewhere else. Don't get out of the car. let's fill the water bottles, let's get some shells. that dog's over there taking a crap. Get over here, gotta give a whistle. If you got a partner, you're gonna go this way, I'll go this way. There's too much rigmarole. I'll either stop it in town or down the road. I don't care if it's a country cemetery or a crossroads or a

You know, anywhere. Get ready, get out get your shells in, get your dog tuned up, let her get out and get her yah yas out and put her back in and then pull up and get out of that vehicle and go.

Speaker 1 (47:05.23)

For clarity, get your shells out, but not in your gun. Right. Just getting them ready. Yeah. Yeah. Get in your vest.

Speaker 2 (47:09.281)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:12.706)

Yeah, everything in your gun your guns ready to slip out of the case. And you're in your vest. Your dog has got whatever paraphernalia you like on your dog and go. And that's that's the start of stealth. Yeah. And then it goes into all aspects of pheasant hunting anytime. Yeah. Stealth. Ghost it. Yep. Casper the friendly ghost.

Speaker 1 (47:33.806)

Ghosted. All right. We've counted our way through seven of Wind, moisture, corn, diversity, forenoon, December. And our final equalizer. Number eight. Miles.

Speaker 2 (47:48.482)

Delph.

Speaker 2 (47:57.346)

This is more of a this is a truly a human and a mindset approach, but it is that I I always like to say, and I'll tell people this when they miss a pheasant, if I'm hunting with somebody or one of my kids or somebody, start walking, every step you start taking is a clo is a step closer to your next pheasant. And that's true whether you're getting a shot or getting action or not, is miles matter. That's that's my sort of my other saying, you know.

I I'm gonna do it. I think I'll do it this year 'cause I've I've taken into tracking my steps every day I hunt. Mm-hmm. And butting that up against a bird's bagged at the end of the year and say, How many miles do I walk for every pheasant I shoot across across the pheasant range? What'll I hunt this year? Probably Minnesota, perhaps Wisconsin. I'm trying to get a little something planned here. But Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, and probably North Dakota.

So a lot of different steps, a lot of different places, a lot of different kinds of habitat. And the only thing, the only consistency I know in pheasant hunting is that miles matter. The more miles you put on, the closer you are to that next pheasant to finding what they're doing today or where they are this afternoon. it's pretty it's pretty simple when you get right down to it. you can even miles can miles can override some of the other.

shortcomings we have a little too much whistling at my dog, a little too a little too much yelling at my partner or trying to get their attention. but miles, sooner or later you're gonna find a rooster and you're gonna find or a rooster that may more likely a rooster that makes a mistake. And miles are that equalizer that get you there. and the last the last thing I'd say with miles is never overlook the overlooked. When you're putting on miles and you're like

I'm just not finding any birds today. What's going on? And you keep you keep pounding the same type of cover. It's like maybe go try somewhere else. Or maybe say, maybe say, you know, maybe I better go try that short grass up there. I I still remember what I I've told the story many times of or a couple of times, probably on podcasts, of of doing this in December in a South Dakota sprawling waterfowl production area.

Speaker 2 (50:20.012)

And I was down pounding cattails, and it was a pretty nice December day, and I wasn't seeing much. And like, well, they must not be down in the cattails today. And I had to go through some just it was a skiff of snow, cold, 20 degrees, almost perfect, you know, a little wind. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? And I had to cross, cross some nice standard five foot tall blue stem, nothing. And

I could have went straight back to the car, but there was where two roads met where at the intersection of the roads it was high, high country, and the grass was about a foot tall. I thought, well, I might as well walk through there. Whom the dog goes on point. boom. You know, three miles later I got a pheasant in foot tall grass in the middle of December. there sometimes you just gotta go try somewhere else and I call it don't overlook the overlooked.

Speaker 1 (51:15.288)

So I'm sure there's a audience of listeners out there also thinking, My big running pointing dogs, this is how they equalize it, you know, English pointers, English setters. You know, because you know, you talk about it from a perspective of philosophical, just put one foot in front of the other. But there's also those big running, pointing dog, you know, that are steady to wing.

Yeah, really steady, well trained dogs that those doggy release and they just cover ground. They fly and that plays into this too.

Speaker 2 (51:48.67)

Yeah.

Yeah, it does. That that my miles matter. I I talk about human steps, but dog miles matter too. And yeah, there's everybody's got their different different style of hunting pheasants. Our flusher guys with the labs or the little cockers or the springers. Your your miles and the dogs match up pretty good. I mean the dog's covering more than you. but you're putting on the miles. Sooner or later you're gonna find that bird.

When you're when you got that big moving dog, he's covering a lot of ground. Those are miles too. That it it's not you alone, it's not your dog alone, it's you as the team. And that that's a great point you made, Bob, is that the miles matter for both you and and your dog. and that that is the power of a big running dog, pheasant hunting. A lot of people criticize it and it's not my style. but it's it's an equalizer 'cause they're covering ground.

And you don't have to cover those

Speaker 1 (52:50.834)

I I think about it, you know, there I think particularly a vision in my mind is my buddy John Zeman on a horse in Montana during Sharpie season. You know, and his dogs are working a mile out. But they are trained where they hit scent and they are stock still. Yep. And they allow you to ride up on a horse, get off the horse, pull your shotgun out of the scabbard.

Speaker 2 (53:06.711)

Ow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:19.594)

approach and they're still standing still.

Speaker 2 (53:22.03)

Now will they do that? because sharp tails we all know move. Pheasants are even more so, you know. We all know about you what you you get over to a point, even if my dog is only 40, maybe 40 yards away, and I get over there and it's like, she repositions, and then then hopefully you have a little sequence. will those big dogs out like that? You you can't tell it every sharp tail isn't gonna just sit there. But

But it gives you the chance to be in the zip code with them.

Speaker 1 (53:52.994)

Yeah, so the best of the best, like so so John's dogs, he and if he was walking in front trying to flush, right, his dog's still standing, pointing. And nothing happens. He will walk to the dog, they'll still be standing until he taps on the head, releases that dog, and then that dog will relocate, figure out, you know, th those birds as you say, they don't always flush.

They maybe they wandered off or ran off and that dog will relocate, find him again, point again, and hopefully, you know, you don't have to get back on the horse and you you're you're still walking. Dog relocates, goes on point, and you walk in front and flush him.

Speaker 2 (54:34.508)

Yeah, I I can see that. I think in pheasant country probably, you know, you we're usually not riding horses, but you're your your I mean your GSPs run bigger than Lark. I mean you might have to get to go two hundred yards to get to a point, I would guess. Yes. Yeah. But then do you walk up and like always hear who start repositioning or do you have to tap yours too?

Speaker 1 (54:55.896)

I different well my dogs are at different levels, right? So I do have a dog where I tap on the head to relocate that will wait. And then I've had dogs that are not quite to that level where they'll re reposition on their own.

Speaker 2 (55:14.338)

What about the dogs that you tap and they will relocate? Or y d do they what if they don't? Do you like go back and start trying to flush that bird? Like will they just not relocate if that bird is close?

Speaker 1 (55:28.716)

Yeah, yeah, they'll wait to sit there. 'Cause they have deciphered that scent. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 (55:35.51)

With lark it's a little little different because she's usually closer. She's in pheasant country. So like when I was sharp tail hunting a few weeks ago, she was a hundred yards out. To me, that's letting her rip. It's like, wow, look at her, run out there. And and I let her do it because she she I know at pheasant season, she's like gonna be thirty, forty yards from me. But no matter what bird we're hunting, if I walk up and she stays like sometimes when I walk up, she'll just start going, like, okay, he's here. I'm gonna reposition. And

If I go out and walk and come back and do it a couple of times and then come back sooner or later, usually sooner, she'll be like, Okay, he's been here, the scent has dissipated, I'm repositioning and then you're on the what is probably the most exciting part of being a pointing dog guy is one, two, three, four, lock. that finally, you know.

Speaker 1 (56:26.286)

I think the key is whether you're releasing the dog with a tap on the head or the dog is relocating on its own, where it breaks down is if the dog gets close and then just goes crazy and flushes them on their own. If they have to relocate as long as they're well trained enough to stop and point again, then then you have some tools to work with.

Speaker 2 (56:54.146)

Well, not not to ignore our flushing brothers and sisters, you know, you've got you know, watch that dog, let it put on the miles. You know your dog, especially you get a season or two in. Boy, you you know what you know their their body movements and you know when they're on a bird and get up there and be with them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:15.174)

all right, folks, as you're listening to this episode and you're not currently a member, maybe you let your membership lapse. This publication, the fall edition of the Pheasants Forever Journal, is already in mailboxes. It's already in homes. So if you would like to renew, if you'd like to join, and you want this issue.

Hit me up with an email - on the wing podcast at pheasantsforever.org. Let me know that you renewed or you joined and you're wanting to get a copy of Equalizers, the article from Tom Carpenter that we've been ban bantering about on this podcast. If you want to read from the starting letter to the end, Carp, I'm looking at 1412 words.

Let me know on the wing podcast at pheasantsforever.org. I will get you the hookup and we hope that you enjoyed this episode and hope that you are a member of Pheasants Forever. Thanks, Carp. All right, folks, I'm Bob St.Pierre reminding you to always follow the dog. Something good will rise. Thanks, folks.